Comments on: Transition States

By: Jeremy Denk

Jeremy Denk — Thu, 27 Apr 2006 02:11:16 +0000

I cannot be more delighted that readers of my blog are debating the translation of the last line of Horace’s Ode, and I am touched beyond measure by the ardor and effort placed into the more literal translation… which is so beautiful also. Thanks.

By: syro0

syro0 — Wed, 26 Apr 2006 23:54:07 +0000

Thanks for the additional information.
I had wanted to research some geographical details myself, but was a little tired after the main translation.
To finally elucidate the point the Italian editor was making, I quote part of his note:
"Ebro - Gelido fiume della Tracia, rappresentato qui compagno dell'inverno... Alcuni hanno preferito l'emendamento Euro, vento ugualmente apportatore di tempeste"

[Hebro - An icy river of Thrace, here represented as winter's companion. Some have preferred the emendation "Euro", a wind that also brings storms.]

The Euro in this case is the Latin eurum, designation for the south-eastern wind otherwise called the s(c)irocco. Since that would bring storms all right, but is generally a hot wind, Horace would have made an impossible (in my eyes) step from winter to hot winds, and those editors choosing the latter variant, a blunder.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 26 Apr 2006 23:22:25 +0000

ALSO:The north wind coming down from Thrace is “Boreas” litterally “north wind” in ancient and modern greek by the way. A penetrating cold wind indeed, since it usually involves cold air masses descending from Siberia over Thrace and the Aegean Sea (fellow Greeks will know whatI mean first hand)

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 26 Apr 2006 23:18:29 +0000

“Hebro” is a river on the border between modern day Thrace and Turkey. The greek name of the river is EVROS (Hence HEBRO). It is a rather large river with a thriving delta where lots of birds nest. A cold stream indeed (not a wind) Nice translation. Confirms mu initial impression about the poem being about old age and loss of beauty and Youth!

By: syro0

syro0 — Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:19:06 +0000

Dear Jeremy,
although my latin is somewhat rusty, and English not my first language, I made a more literal translation of the Ode (I,25), with a little help from the edition of Horace by Luca Canali (Orazio. Odi. Epodi. Mondadori, 2004).
I see it as a sort of thank you for you blog ;-)

Ever more rarely do ardent young men
Make repeated throws at your closed windows
Nor do they disturb your sleep, and the door
Likes the threshold [i.e. prefers to remain closed]

that formerly turned its hinges much more easily.
And already you hear less and less:
"While I am perishing here, you,
Lydia, sleep throughout the long nights?"

Instead, you, old uninteresting woman,
are in the lonely alley weeping for those arrogant adulterous lovers,
and the Thracian wind [i.e. north wind] is blowing ever harder
Under the new moon.

With you, the burning love and lust
that uses to madden the mares
only rages within your torn intestines,
Not without bitter pain,

Because the youth enjoys much more
The green strong ivy and the darkish myrtle,
and gives the withered leaves
To winter's companion, the Hebro, icy stream.

[The "Hebro" has been emendated by some editors by the "Euro", yet another cold wind, the Hebro, is, as my addition explains an "icy stream" in Thrace - this information comes from Canali]

Note: I deleted and re-wrote this post, because an error in (English) vocabulary disfigured the first line of the translation.

By: Allison

Allison — Wed, 26 Apr 2006 01:00:06 +0000

I view aging differently, as a part of the natural progression of life that helps us let go of our attachment to the physical world as our time here draws to a close. If we were to retain the same beauty and vitality we enjoy as young adults into our later years, how much more difficult it might then be to accept our inevitable passing. (So much more left to experience, relationships to be enjoyed, things to be learned, etc.)

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:52:38 +0000

Being in the medical field, I see the massacre every day. It happens (usually but not always) later in life. It is shocking what a cruel hoax aging can be. Last Fall the film “The Ballets Russes” came out in many cities (including you fair city). The 80-90 year old dancers recounted their impetuous, extremely talented Youths. Interposed were pictures of them at age 18 or 20. Ravishing, glowing, beautiful faces now wrinkled, faded, although the glimmer in the eyes was there….sad but worth contemplating, especially if you are a poet (and you are a poet JD, I’ve heard you play…)

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:45:40 +0000

Ah, yes. It is better to have loved and lost.
Much better.

By: Bubs

Bubs — Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:00:07 +0000

Haven't read the whole blog yet but wanted to say a couple things right off the bat:

1. Isn't there intrinsic beauty in cutting someone so low as Horace did to Lydia? Desert has nothing to do with it - I think in a similar vein to how you must admit when you've been badly zinged, Lydia's gotta testify. That passage is pure gold.

2. The ethical tug over baring Schubert's soul sounds akin (though not 100%) to George C. Scott refusing his Patton Oscar - should you perhaps contact all patrons and return their money?

2

By: Jeremy Denk

Jeremy Denk — Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:04:39 +0000

I guess my feeling is, yes, aging and the loss of desirability is inevitable, but it doesn’t need to be quite so aggressively pointed out. The poet must have some special, vindictive reason to harness all his magnificent powers to make this point so vividly and awfully, a point which is, after all, obvious to everyone. However, is life therefore a “massacre”? We here at Think Denk think not.