Comments on: Learish Addenda http://jeremydenk.net/blog/2006/09/23/learish-addenda/ The glamorous life and thoughts of a concert pianist. Mon, 21 May 2012 04:43:40 +0000 hourly 1 By: Nora http://jeremydenk.net/blog/2006/09/23/learish-addenda/comment-page-1/#comment-3842 Nora Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:32:44 +0000 http://jeremydenk.net/blog/?p=389#comment-3842 I just stumbled upon your blog while searching for some info about the same line. It immediately struck me because I sing a form of music that uses shaped notes and solfege as a tool for sight reading and our major scale goes as follows: Fa Sol La Fa Sol La Mi Fa. These syllables can signify any major scale, for example in a C-major scale the syllables would signify C D E F G A B C. I immediately though Edmund was singing the Fa that starts on the fourth (F) and the four notes following it Sol(G) La(A) Mi(B) which is a series of notes that begins on the fourth and ends of the 7th...thus that dissonant tritone/augmented fourth that is termed the "devils interval." I don't know a ton about music, but I believe that the tritone occurs naturally in any major scale between the 4th and the 7th notes. In the shape system I sing, those four notes in a row are ALWAYS the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th notes. My question is related to which system in particular would have been known in Elizabethan England. My guess is that the 4-shape system I sing is probably not exactly what Shakespeare knew, but maybe...I am going to keep searching. Hope this was helpful...even though it is a few years after the original post! I just stumbled upon your blog while searching for some info about the same line. It immediately struck me because I sing a form of music that uses shaped notes and solfege as a tool for sight reading and our major scale goes as follows: Fa Sol La Fa Sol La Mi Fa. These syllables can signify any major scale, for example in a C-major scale the syllables would signify C D E F G A B C. I immediately though Edmund was singing the Fa that starts on the fourth (F) and the four notes following it Sol(G) La(A) Mi(B) which is a series of notes that begins on the fourth and ends of the 7th…thus that dissonant tritone/augmented fourth that is termed the “devils interval.” I don’t know a ton about music, but I believe that the tritone occurs naturally in any major scale between the 4th and the 7th notes. In the shape system I sing, those four notes in a row are ALWAYS the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th notes.

My question is related to which system in particular would have been known in Elizabethan England. My guess is that the 4-shape system I sing is probably not exactly what Shakespeare knew, but maybe…I am going to keep searching.

Hope this was helpful…even though it is a few years after the original post!

]]> By: Nora http://jeremydenk.net/blog/2006/09/23/learish-addenda/comment-page-1/#comment-3841 Nora Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:32:08 +0000 http://jeremydenk.net/blog/?p=389#comment-3841 I just stumbled upon your blog while searching for some info about the same line. It immediately struck me because I sing a form of music that uses shaped notes and solfege as a tool for sight reading and our major scale goes as follows: Fa Sol La Fa Sol La Mi Fa. These syllables can signify any major scale, for example in a C-major scale the syllables would signify C D E F G A B C. I immediately though Edmund was singing the Fa that starts on the fourth (F) and the four notes following it Sol(G) La(A) Mi(B) which is a series of notes that begins on the fourth and ends of the 7th...thus that dissonant tritone/augmented fourth that is termed the "devils interval." I don't know a ton about music, but I believe that the tritone occurs naturally in any major scale between the 4th and the 7th notes. In the shape system I sing, those four notes in a row are ALWAYS the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th notes. My question is related to which system in particular would have been known in Elizabethan England. My guess is that the 4-shape system I sing is probably not exactly what Shakespeare knew, but maybe...I am going to keep searching. Hope this was helpful...even though it is a few years after the original post! Hope this has been I just stumbled upon your blog while searching for some info about the same line. It immediately struck me because I sing a form of music that uses shaped notes and solfege as a tool for sight reading and our major scale goes as follows: Fa Sol La Fa Sol La Mi Fa. These syllables can signify any major scale, for example in a C-major scale the syllables would signify C D E F G A B C. I immediately though Edmund was singing the Fa that starts on the fourth (F) and the four notes following it Sol(G) La(A) Mi(B) which is a series of notes that begins on the fourth and ends of the 7th…thus that dissonant tritone/augmented fourth that is termed the “devils interval.” I don’t know a ton about music, but I believe that the tritone occurs naturally in any major scale between the 4th and the 7th notes. In the shape system I sing, those four notes in a row are ALWAYS the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th notes.

My question is related to which system in particular would have been known in Elizabethan England. My guess is that the 4-shape system I sing is probably not exactly what Shakespeare knew, but maybe…I am going to keep searching.

Hope this was helpful…even though it is a few years after the original post!

Hope this has been

]]> By: John Kelsey http://jeremydenk.net/blog/2006/09/23/learish-addenda/comment-page-1/#comment-3836 John Kelsey Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:30:40 +0000 http://jeremydenk.net/blog/?p=389#comment-3836 Seems to me the scale in question was called the Landcaster sol-fa scale. It's the same syllables one uses in shape-note singing today. A major scale is sung: fa, sol, la, fa, sol, la, mi, fa. The notes in question are numbers four through seven (a tritone). If it were up to me, I would have Edmund sing them. It would add to the spookiness of the situation (during an eclipse, which can be taken as a bad omen). We could also go on about divisions, but maybe this is enough for now. jk Seems to me the scale in question was called the Landcaster sol-fa scale. It’s the same syllables one uses in shape-note singing today. A major scale is sung: fa, sol, la, fa, sol, la, mi, fa. The notes in question are numbers four through seven (a tritone).

If it were up to me, I would have Edmund sing them. It would add to the spookiness of the situation (during an eclipse, which can be taken as a bad omen). We could also go on about divisions, but maybe this is enough for now.

jk

]]> By: Tim http://jeremydenk.net/blog/2006/09/23/learish-addenda/comment-page-1/#comment-2323 Tim Fri, 10 Nov 2006 03:30:32 +0000 http://jeremydenk.net/blog/?p=389#comment-2323 As a music theorist who's studied this period, it IS actually a tritone, though not in the (modern) way it's construed here. People arguing from a Guidonian, continental perspective are also a bit misled. In England, the hexachord syllables were in use, but in a different way: each note in a "scale" had only one syllable that could be attached to it (though the vice versa is not always true). And ut and re were generally or often replaced with fa and sol. Thus any half step is Mi-fa. So a C scale would be: fa sol mi fa sol la mi (fa...). So our fa sol la mi could be, say, F-G-A-B. As a music theorist who’s studied this period, it IS actually a tritone, though not in the (modern) way it’s construed here. People arguing from a Guidonian, continental perspective are also a bit misled. In England, the hexachord syllables were in use, but in a different way: each note in a “scale” had only one syllable that could be attached to it (though the vice versa is not always true). And ut and re were generally or often replaced with fa and sol. Thus any half step is Mi-fa. So a C scale would be: fa sol mi fa sol la mi (fa…). So our fa sol la mi could be, say, F-G-A-B.

]]> By: Darren Mallory http://jeremydenk.net/blog/2006/09/23/learish-addenda/comment-page-1/#comment-2262 Darren Mallory Tue, 03 Oct 2006 03:04:05 +0000 http://jeremydenk.net/blog/?p=389#comment-2262 Hi,<br/><br/>Nice blog very informative. Hope you don't mind but i have bookmarked it.<br/><br/><a HREF="http://www.financeextra.info" REL="nofollow">Financial Blog</a> <a HREF="http://www.homebusinessave.info" REL="nofollow">Home Business Blog</a> <a HREF="http://affiliateblogsite.info" REL="nofollow">Affiliate Blog</a> Hi,

Nice blog very informative. Hope you don’t mind but i have bookmarked it.

Financial Blog Home Business Blog Affiliate Blog

]]> By: Anonymous http://jeremydenk.net/blog/2006/09/23/learish-addenda/comment-page-1/#comment-2261 Anonymous Mon, 02 Oct 2006 23:02:58 +0000 http://jeremydenk.net/blog/?p=389#comment-2261 Yeah, that would be great 'cause he's a thinking piano man.<br/><br/>light bulb over his head while playing the piano; think denk? <br/><br/>I would love to buy that.... Yeah, that would be great ’cause he’s a thinking piano man.

light bulb over his head while playing the piano; think denk?

I would love to buy that….

]]> By: hari http://jeremydenk.net/blog/2006/09/23/learish-addenda/comment-page-1/#comment-2260 hari Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:45:04 +0000 http://jeremydenk.net/blog/?p=389#comment-2260 how about a light bulb over his head while playing the piano; think denk? how about a light bulb over his head while playing the piano; think denk?

]]> By: Dr. Dick http://jeremydenk.net/blog/2006/09/23/learish-addenda/comment-page-1/#comment-2259 Dr. Dick Thu, 28 Sep 2006 03:04:51 +0000 http://jeremydenk.net/blog/?p=389#comment-2259 Certainly someone could come up with a caricature of Jeremy playing the piano a la Schroeder: then the image is 'parody' and not in any legal violation, right? Certainly someone could come up with a caricature of Jeremy playing the piano a la Schroeder: then the image is ‘parody’ and not in any legal violation, right?

]]> By: Kelsey http://jeremydenk.net/blog/2006/09/23/learish-addenda/comment-page-1/#comment-2258 Kelsey Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:05:49 +0000 http://jeremydenk.net/blog/?p=389#comment-2258 I would buy a Think Denk t-shirt. The Schroeder image must be under copyright laws though, which would keep you from using it on merchandise. Maybe someone could come up with different t-shirt or coffee cup possibilites for fans of the blog. I would buy a Think Denk t-shirt. The Schroeder image must be under copyright laws though, which would keep you from using it on merchandise. Maybe someone could come up with different t-shirt or coffee cup possibilites for fans of the blog.

]]> By: Claire http://jeremydenk.net/blog/2006/09/23/learish-addenda/comment-page-1/#comment-2257 Claire Tue, 26 Sep 2006 06:07:15 +0000 http://jeremydenk.net/blog/?p=389#comment-2257 okay my teacher says:<br/><br/>OK, I know NOTHING about music, but here goes my best shot... The Arden<br/>first of all is citing scholar G.K. Hunter a VERY respected scholar at<br/>Yale. He has written extensively about performance in the time period<br/>and must be considered an expert on Elizabthan performance - which I<br/>assume includes music. Hunter seems to be trying to tie the "devil in<br/>music" thingie to Edmund - the devil in the play. I don't understand why<br/>this does or doesn't work - but if you want to give it a shot - find the<br/>source of the Hunter passage and see what he says in full. Don't toss<br/>your Arden just yet... Sorry not to be more hlpful, I just don't know<br/>music as well as you! okay my teacher says:

OK, I know NOTHING about music, but here goes my best shot… The Arden
first of all is citing scholar G.K. Hunter a VERY respected scholar at
Yale. He has written extensively about performance in the time period
and must be considered an expert on Elizabthan performance – which I
assume includes music. Hunter seems to be trying to tie the “devil in
music” thingie to Edmund – the devil in the play. I don’t understand why
this does or doesn’t work – but if you want to give it a shot – find the
source of the Hunter passage and see what he says in full. Don’t toss
your Arden just yet… Sorry not to be more hlpful, I just don’t know
music as well as you!

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